CIT WITNESS VERIFICATION, PART 1: THE PREVIOUSLY SUSPICIOUS FATHER MCGRAW REDUX: THE MASTER OPUS
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
December 14 2007
Last updated 2/13 1amFOREWORD 12/07: Since I published the first version of this piece a week ago, it has gotten more attention than I expected, both positive and of course negative.
A dedicated denunciation at the CIT forum and two lightning discussion threads at Above Top Secret ensued –
one locked and
the other still active. Some points were ironed out, some challenges issued, some questions answered and others raised. I have worked some of the more relevant results back into my original piece to make it more accurate and informed. It’s now a long post – tedious in spots but hopefully worthwhile for anyone seriously into the whole PentaCon phenomena. The original is also available on request.
---The CIT MagicLately I’ve been giving some thought to the process by which
Citizen Investigative Team (CIT) verify alleged witnesses to the Pentagon attack. As CIT core member Craig Ranke explained in a recent phone discussion, previously published eyewitness accounts of a plane impact are all suspect.
“This is not eyewitness testimony, okay […] we need to talk about it for what it is, which are static words printed by the mainstream media. So until you speak with these witnesses direct and get their first-hand confirmation of these details, these words are merely hearsay. They aren’t evidence at all. That’s a fact.” [1]
The magic of CIT is of course their tracking down witnesses, preferably previously unpublished ones, and confirming what they really say they saw, removing the MSM distortions where applicable and countering MSM ignorance elsewhere. When it came to their Citgo witnesses featured in
The PentaCon, they placed their locations carefully on a map, determined their point-of-view, and had them describe what they saw, clarify details, and draw one or more lines in satellite maps to verify the direction they saw the plane flying. When possible, verification was found that the witness truly was there. This sounds good enough, and the method has yielded numerous accounts confirming the north-of-the-Citgo flight path that necessitates a fly-over of the Pentagon and all physical evidence somehow faked in an elaborate and well-coordinated effort.
They insist they have not yet found a south path witness who actually saw the official flight path matching the damage both before and inside the building. As Lyte Trip, Craig explained to the JREF debunkers “We have searched high and low for a witness to go on record contradicting the citgo witnesses north of the station claim. If you can find one let us know.” [2] This lack of verified support for the ‘official’ path has led Craig and CIT to trumpet everywhere they’re still allowed “the
unanimous north side of the citgo station claim,” the one that necessitates the unseen flyover and mind-boggling feats of fakery.
But is this really true? While the four main interviews presented in the PentaCon strongly indicate a north path
and impact (one of which must be wrong), another interview they did in search of confirmation came out much more murky. As I read it anyway, this one raised some awkward problems for their north-side flyover-n-fakery claim, prompting an ugly solution.
McGraw VerifiesThe witness in question is Father Stephen McGraw, a Catholic priest filmed on location after the attack ministering to the injured. Like Father Merrin in the Exorcist, he emerged from the mist of dubious photos and reports, let the team into his own church for a videotaped interview and verified his account for the enlightenment of all. Key portions at least of his interesting and telling interview are presented in their video
From the Law to The Lord, viewable below.
18 comments:
Oh Adam.
Are you ok? Did you bump your head?
Smartin' from those discussions with CIT?
So now you've retracted your previous claims that you were wrong about and shifted them to another "conspiracy theory". Hmmm.
Tell me, how exactly does McGraw "prove" a southside flight path when he was allegedly looking forward?
Is he is in a better position to see the north/south side flight path or are the Citgo witnesses in a better position?
Do you have proof he was there at the exact moment that the went over/by?
Does he?
He claims he crossed the guardrail of the highway on to the lawn of the Pentagon 45 seconds after the event.
Mark Faram saw him cross the guardrail of the highway on to the lawn of the Pentagon. The problem is Mark Faram did not get down the hill to the scene from the Navy Annex until 10 minutes after the event.
His account is rife with problems and contradictions.
He admits he deduced the lamp pole/cab interaction, so he WAS not a witness to that as his account had people believe.
How many priests do you know of that would ditch a funeral they were already late to in order help out at a place that already has a chaplain?
Full response here:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=43
Why do you always run to LCF like a coward?
Why are you so afraid to deal with us direct?
Your obsession with us is reaching new heights.
Welsome, Aldo! First time here.
"Tell me, how exactly does McGraw "prove" a southside flight path when he was allegedly looking forward?"
It seems to me the south path would come in behin him from the left, and continue ahead and to the right. If it did this, then it was south of the Citgo. Am I reading his location, account, or gesticulations wrong?
"He claims he crossed the guardrail of the highway on to the lawn of the Pentagon 45 seconds after the event."
Sorry if I got that part wtong... I'll go back and check later on.
"Is he is in a better position to see the north/south side flight path or are the Citgo witnesses in a better position?"
He was in a much better position to see the low-level impact, which he saw.
"Do you have proof he was there at the exact moment that the went over/by?
Does he?"
Does anybody? Oh yheah there's a humanoid shape Lagasse says is him in that proven manipulated video.... so you think McGraw was brought in later? Thank you for proving my point by insisting on questioning this account you don't want to believe.
"He admits he deduced the lamp pole/cab interaction, so he WAS not a witness to that as his account had people believe."
He never said he SAW it HAPPEN. This is you trying to paint him a liar to casr doubt. Again, thank you. Hope you can get some food in their past your foot or you'll starve.
"How many priests do you know of that would ditch a funeral they were already late to in order help out at a place that already has a chaplain?"
I don't know any priests. But if I were one I'd chose to administer to the wounded and dying MANY over one guy who's already dead any day. That can wait.
I see where you're going here of corse, and I can't rule out he was planted there. But what a coincidence that he's a south path witness you claim don't exist becuase every one you find must be a liar.
"Why do you always run to LCF like a coward?"
I don't run there dumbas, I just stroll over. Why don't you ever even crawl there? Oh yeah, you got banned. So sorry.
"Why are you so afraid to deal with us direct?"
Ummm.. telephono? No remembero?
Re: new forum - honestly, I'm enjoying the fact that it's totally empty. No debate challenges taken. I'm tired enough of being the one dumbass willing to waste his time dealing direct that I don't feel like being the only one to show up there as well.
>>>>>"No debate challenges taken. I'm tired enough of being the one dumbass willing to waste his time dealing direct that I don't feel like being the only one to show up there as well."
Of course they won't accept! But you sure have yourself nailed as the one "dumbass" willing to attempt to face the truth while clinging to your 757 impact fantasy.
But you are also the only obsessive "dumbass" that is publishing attack blogs on us and our research every other day.
Most of those challenged hide in the corner and won't even address the evidence direct at all.
You did and we served you. So if you continue to insist on obsessing on us the least you can do is debate us direct about it as opposed to publishing these convoluted deceptions and scurrying away like a chipmunk.
McGraw was not a witness to the approach and did not see the poles hit therefore he does not directly refute the north side claim or directly support the south side claim.
"McGraw was not a witness to the approach and did not see the poles hit therefore he does not directly refute the north side claim or directly support the south side claim."
From his car to the building, right? How hard is it to deduce from there back? The paths DO NOT converge there. Closer than at the Citgo, but one is OVER him and the other ahead of him. Light pole knocked down 'before it got to us.' From behind. Can at least one of your witnesses have a basic grasp of space to realize a plane up north of him don't knock down a pole south of him 'right before him?' He saw and felt and experienced the south path.
Thanks for the comments Craig. Your continued insistence to dismiss McGraw's account helps expose that this is indeed a south path witness you verified for us, just in a shoddy and highly biased way that you insist on warping and confusing and neutralizing.
You are out of your mind and clearly desperate.
He says he did not see the approach. This is fact. He says he did not know the plane existed until it was over his head. This is fact.
This means he SAYS that he is NOT a witness to what side of the gas station it flew. This is fact.
His account is not a definitive north or south side account either way because of these FACTS.
You are merely attacking us personally to make it look like we are misrepresenting the info when we did not.
This is also fact.
Now get a life or go obsess on someone else.
Finding it more difficult to "maintain vigilance and calm"?
Be a man not a chipmunk.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319742/pg1
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=43
Just to ote all the above comments were before the 12/14 re-vamp.
No Path witness. Priceless.
to NOTE, I also need to slow down...
I think if you weren't so busy searching for evidence of lies, you'd see that there are perfectly logical explanations for the things Father Steve said. First of all, he had just witnessed a major catastrophe, which I'm sure caused initial feelings of shock and disbelief before he was able to react. That's a common reaction after such an occurrence, especially something of this magnitude. That could explain his insistence that it was 45 seconds. It's likely that Faram's estimation of 10 minutes was wrong, too, and the truth lies somewhere in between. Ask a group of eye-witnesses about an event, and you'll get several different versions of what happened. Does that mean they're all deliberately lying?? Of course not. Now, as for the not-knowing-it-was-the-Pentagon accusation and the 14th St. Bridge connection: Having lived in Falls Church for almost 5 years and driven my husband to the Pentagon almost daily, I can witness that 1) the 14th St. Bridge might appear near the Pentagon as the crow flies, but when you're driving across that bridge you don't see the Penatgon unless perhaps you're looking for it, but if you're looking for it while driving in the DC traffic you're sure to end up in an accident; and 2) the Pentagon is tucked away between several converging roads and interchanges which wrap around it. It is entirely believable that Father Steve could have lived in that area and never had a real view of the Pentagon. Most Americans recognize it from aerial images, in which the five sides can be readily seen; but from the ground you see only one side, which looks nothing like the aerial view. And in case you're wondering, yes Father Steve was my parish priest during the time I lived in Falls Church, and I won't just sit by and hear him vilified. He's a good and holy priest, and not the liar you're trying to paint him as.
Oh, and in response to Aldo Marquis cit, who said: "How many priests do you know of that would ditch a funeral they were already late to in order help out at a place that already has a chaplain?"
I have two responses: 1) he was stuck and couldn't possibly have made it to the funeral anyway, unless he walked, but he obviously didn't know that area well enough to know how to get there walking; and 2) Any Catholic priest worth his mettle would immediately stop and administer the sacraments when he sees people in danger of death. It's his duty!
Mollie, thanks for the comment, and if you're reading still, right on. I think my tone might be confusing, but there's a lot of sarcasm above, and if you check the context more closely, I'm clearly saying about what you are. I'm not religious and don't care if he's holy or not, but I certainly see no good reason to call father McGraw a liar, unless one is intent on finding excuses to deny his VERY detailed and useful account of the attack.
That is what Aldo and CIT have done and why they chose to. They've called him an operative, a planted witness, a suspicious liar with elite connections, etc, and he's not the first. Don't worry, no one but a few loons takes them seriously.
I'm glad you know father Steve and can vouch for him, for what that's worth. :) For my part he seems a decent chap. Your second comment is especially useful, I agree that helping those who are just then dying or even injured and terrified might take precedence over someone who's already comfortably passed. Plus he was stuck in traffic.
If you'd like to address the CIT directly, they have a forum you could register at:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT
But it's not for the faint of heart. They may call YOU an operative and start researching YOUR connections and so on, since you're covering for a known liar and accomplice to mass murder, and so on, as they've called me. It is all a joke, IMO, but still...
Old point by Craig (the other half of CIT)
"He says he did not see the approach. This is fact. He says he did not know the plane existed until it was over his head. This is fact."
So what you say is he wasn't aware of it till it was over his head, and then became unaware of it again immediately? How else can he have not seen the approach at all?
You are out of your mind and clearly desperate. Oh, and projecting big time.
Thanks, Caustic Logic. I admit I didn't read all of your posts carefully, because after reading this blog and ANOTHER ONE (how can there be more of these???), my head was reeling. It's an interesting theory, to say the least, but one has to resort to all kinds of imaginative contortions, even calling a good man a liar, to be able to believe it. Amazing!
Amazing contortions indeed. They deny almost every piece of actual evidence and propose the plane flew over the building tho no one saw this. This is all from a flight path that a few more witnesses than should have testified to. They refuse to call them mistaken or even possibly lying (I think a few are, perhaps for amusement), but there are at least 30 people who they find 'suspect,' as well as every impact report (optic trickery of some kind), the video evidence (manipulated), the plane debris (planted), downed light poles (planted), DNA (made up or planted), Black Box data (fake)...
I really think they're just having sick fun, and I keep regretting wasting so much time debunking them.
If you see Father Steve, let him know this isn't serious, or probably not.
Where did the jet engines go to? They don't melt from the heat of a jet fuel fire. Add that to the photos of the Pentagon that show computers, desks, and an open book sitting on a wood stand with no burnt pages. I just can't believe a kerosene fire hot enough to melt jet engines couldn't at least singe a couple pages from an open book. Also, how do you explain there being no damage to the building foundation or lawn?
Just asking
Father McGraw dropped everything to care for the sick and the wounded. How do I know? He's my friend!
Did you do anything but sit on your over-sized butt during 9/11? Did you help anyone? Did you pray?
No, you complain and imagine that the world is out to get you. Shame on you. Stop blogging and do something that makes the world better.
Be more like Father McGraw
Anon, the answers to those Qs are on this site, right-side bar, physical evidence.
Random Christian: Unlike McGraw, I was too far away to help that day. Sorry. You seem to think I'm calling him suspicious, rather than making fun of those that do. Why do some Christians have such poor reading comprehension?
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