Showing posts with label impact hole. Show all posts
Showing posts with label impact hole. Show all posts

Tuesday, May 13, 2008

COOKIE IDENTIFICATION TEAM

COOKIE IDENTIFICATION TEAM
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
May 13 2008
updates/edits 5/14 1am


Semantical note: To avoid any misunderstanding as has happened in the past, over interpretations of the ‘normal’ meaning of various key terms, I am taking ‘cookie-cutter’ as meaning an unnaturally similar shape between the damage and the damager and ‘cartoonish’ as similarly meaning unrealistic, in defiance of normal principles and dynamics of the alleged event. Examples: Ranke dismissing my “sarcastic little list of cookie cutter yet anomalous damage” that “means nothing” in the face of their growing list of “evidence” against the impact. Ranke again: “Now we know why the physical damage is so anomalous and questionable yet cookie cutter in many ways.” [source] Proceed.
---
The image below has been offered about lately by Citizen Investigation Team (CIT) for the ‘anomalous’ impact damage at the Pentagon’s façade. This useful and pretty accurate resource, based on a montage by Pier Paulo Murru (who also did their famous flyover animation), clears the smoke and debris to let us see the structural situation. CIT has improved on it with their red outline that seems to denote the intact structure, but ignoring the first floor columns and non-columns entirely.
CIT’s Craig Ranke noted beneath it at one post ”Just looking at the initial anomalous and admittedly "counter-intuitive" damage to the building (and lack there of) and it becomes clear that it was not caused by a missile or a plane.” CIT, at least, feel the evidence is counter-intuitive because it’s absolutely wrong for a 757 impact and a better fit for on-site (or in-site) explosives. In the past they’ve argued it doesn’t match a plane impact at all in key ways, like with the lack of tailfin damage, or foundation damage, which they assert. When others point out how the traces of what happened in fact line up quite well with such an impact, CIT do admit that was the intent of the operation and that it was somewhat successful. Aldo and Craig will not tell you about the 16-foot hole, and they do admit to some plane parts inside (pre-planted). In fact in some cases, which we’ll look at here briefly, the problem with the evidence seems to be that it matches the impact story too well. There’s always something wrong.

The damage shown above is what CIT ally Avenger meant when he said “the plane supposedly flew into the Pentagon wall diagonally, but that cleanly cut impact hole is NOT diagonal.” [emph. mine] I’m guessing by ‘diagonal’ he meant with a wing bank, but indeed, the damage seems all horizontal – almost like weak panels removed from a building with a strong horizontal frame. Craig praised him anyway: “Leave it to Avenger to cut to the chase with pure, basic, factual knowledge! This is the most simple and brilliant point that virtually everyone ignores. Particularly the 757 impact "scientists" who say that all the physical damage "lines up perfectly". It does NOT. Sure it's in a straight line but it is ridiculously cookie cutter and anomalous.” [emph. mine - source] I still can't fully understand what this statement means, but it does appear surreal, or rather fragmented and cubist, almost like something was breaking the realistic damage up into rectangular areas of varying destruction – extremely low Atari bit-rate in the op planning blueprints? Or steel-reinforced columns and beams?

The best part is when we get to talking about the faked or so-called engine damage, thee manifestations of which were compiled by Ranke as seen at left (with engine face and words added by me). He has focused most intently on the famous spot where the left engine chipped the retaining wall of the ground-level vent structure just before impact (top photo). “If you accept the notion that this damage was caused by an RB-211 you open up a whole host of other problems with the physical evidence. First consider the cartoon like curvature of the damage as if it was perfectly punched out by the bottom of the engine” [emph. mine] I’m not exactly sure what sort of realistic shape he’d expect here where a heavy, fast-moving, round object is said to have impacted a weak concrete wall. A jagged triangle with spirals of rebar? Are we sure it wasn't just the very edge of the engine, and the shape of the damage was even larger, determined by the concrete itself? What more does Ranke know about this than I? It seems to me of all things hit, this is the most likely to behave like a cookie, considering the conceptual similarity of dough and concrete.

A while back he expanded the theme to include the bottom photos; “It seems the perpetrators (and some 757 impact conspiracy theorists) expected us believe that similar cartoon like curves were created by the engines on the fence to the generator trailer AND the tree up by the light poles: Unfortunately for the official story this cookie cutter anomalous damage raises more questions than it answers.” It does raise questions like was the tree (middle) chopped by the right engine’s turbofan blades, or burned by its heat or both? Or why would the fakers do it too cartoonish like that? The tree damage is a supiciously perfect fit; relative to the probably irrelevant/easily-faked VDOT camera pole damage and approximate height and nature of damage to light pole 1, a wingtip and engine placement like this is illustrated, matching the official story with cartoonish precision you might say. Another good question raised by this alleged damage is why did they tear the fence in such a perfect curve (bottom)? Everyone knows that actual chain-link fence damage is jagged and angular,like this, causing the fence to lose tensile strength and slump into nice smooth curving shapes like this. Oh, wait… now who exactly has ever said that curve was caused directly by the engine?

The diesel generator trailer said to be impacted by the high-banking right engine just before impact also bears the stamp of Disney. It was featured prominently in Integrated Consultants’ animation of the official scenario, as seen above, with the engine just punching a nice curved hole in it like it was a block of tofu. I doubt that many really believe this is what happened - it's a cartoon. But the photos of the generator (below, bottom photo) do look a bit like this, with a very large deformation on a scale of an airliner engine and with a curve reminiscent of one. CIT co-conspirator Aldo Marquis explained why this was not evidence for an airliner engine: “Did you ever watch the video of the trailer on fire before it was put out and left the damage you see? If not you should. Look at the damage, it reflects the thin metal sheet of the trailer MELTING into [an] even bend. So the plane did not cause that, the resulting FIRE DID.”[source]
At the time I conceded that the actual curve seen in this metal could not be caused directly by an RB-211 engine unless it was dropped from above, but maintained it was apparently centered around some extensive pre-fire damage that might be compatible with an engine impact. I saw the Pugh video of the raging fire, and even one better – a photo from even before the blaze got bad, taken by Steve Riskus within five minutes tops of the event (middle). It shows a missing area and a damage profile that’s actually quite similar to the post-melting photos, if rougher and shinier, like fresh torn metal. (Note also the large piece of debris off to the left - is this part of what was removed in the collision?) It started out rectangular (top) and even before the fire took hold was knocked out or pre-fabbed almost the same as it looked later when it appeared to many that an engine passed through it like butter. In short: the fire did nothing to this damage but soften it. But as Craig once simmered it down, "the bend in the top corner to the trailer was likely simply caused by the raging fire melting it. […] the damage to the generator trailer and the cookie cutter curved damage to the fence going all the ground makes even less sense."[source]
And finally, another cookie-cutter anomaly that I discovered and that Craig and Aldo have glossed over: the vent door panel beyond the chipped wall, bearing another improbable cartoonish curve. It would seem these doors were propped and locked open at impact and remained so afterwards, but in a different position and with one side swept down severely at the corner, roughly on the scale of a RB211 engine. How convenient! In fact it looks almost melted, like a lot of energy was transferred into it suddenly by some massive physical force. Pure Hanna Barberra.

So among the reasons to dismiss evidence of a 757 impact we find “the fact that the curvature in the fence, retaining wall, and tree is clearly cookie cutter and anomalous showing blatant signs of pre-fabrication.” [source] And of course there are the other problems that don’t match, the wrong data that rules out something, and the fact that the plane flew north of the Citgo and wherever else radar didn't show it, and flew over instead of impacting, and the choice is clear. If the cutter fits, you must acquit.
---
Cookie Identification Team: "Yes we had a cookie cutter seen in the vicinity, at least five cookies of the right shape, and many witnesses who saw the cutter press into the gingerbread, at least for the final cookie, before their very eyes. But these gingerbread men are too perfect and cartoonish, which indicates they were prefabricated, and a few witnesses saw that cutter over by the sink as the dough was imprinted. Therefore it’s been proven the cuts were done some other way with advance means that can’t be proven or even narrowed-down. Culinary deception is proven!"

Friday, February 8, 2008

RIGHT WING DAMAGE CONTINUITY

RIGHT WING DAMAGE CONTINUITY
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
February 10 2008


Citizen Investigative Team’s number one claim to fame is of course their trailblazing eyewitness account verification, proving a north-of-the-Citgo flyover of the Pentagon. But garnering less attention is their groundbreaking work on exploring the ‘smoking gun’ physical evidence there was no impact from any airliner. Besides the witnesses, and before they were known of at all, CIT felt they had a strong anti-crash case, based on research into the ‘anomolous’ physical evidence at the site of the anomalous (alleged) impact of a 757 into the Pentagon.

Among the prime points they have made and that I’ve so far addressed is the presence of Column 14AA on the second floor, and the lack of foundation damage. The next claim I will examine and answer to the best of my ability is “why is there no continuity to the "wing damage" when it tilted up its right wing? It looks as if the facade simply fell off in this section.” This question was posted along with the two above and several others at Above Top Secret.com, and illustrated with these two high-res Jason Ingersoll photos:
The area shown here is just south of the main impact hole, the first and second floors of the section just upgraded to withstand bomb blasts. In the middle span there is much visible damage: a windowless panel recently backed with 10” of steel-reinforce concrete, intact but missing most facing and partially scooped-out. Perhaps most odd is another panel of presumably the same type right below it entirely gone, along with two weaker window/door panels just to the right of these. Some limestone facing is removed from the frame to the right of that, but at the left and right are areas of little or no visible damage, labeled in red “no wing.” On first blush this might seem like pretty anomalous damage, considering the alleged wing impact angle (see below); put simply, there’s too much damage on the first floor, and apparently not enough on the second.

The photo below is overlaid with a light grid representing the intact structural frame. Intact panels within the grid are lightened as well, whereas removed or intensely damaged panels are left un-tinted. The partial plane outline is based on the ASCE’s graphics, layered to scale and outlined. Areas shaded red are where the problem is, those marked ‘no wing’ above.
Considering how much continuity of damage there should be, we need to consider many factors, like these:
1) The strength of the wing at various point in optimal conditions
2) Actual wings strength/integrity after impacting light poles, generator, etc.
3) The mass and speed behind the wing (with the fuselage already shredding inside)
4) By the alleged impact angle, the entire right wing would have impacted near-simultaneously
4) Portions of the building impacted – horizontal resistance (floor slab) vs. vertical resistance (columns, wall panels, windows)
5) The possibility of other projectiles (cargo trailers, equipment, etc) and/or the deflagration plume of a pre-impact wing explosion contributing to the extra damage on the ground floor.

Considering these, one red area is near the wing’s mid-point just over and south of the engine. This is a very strong part of the wing, but it met the floor slab at a shallow angle – near parallel - with at least ten feet of it hitting edgewise either the slab or the very bases of the columns anchored to it above. At this point, the building wins and shows no immediately visible scars. The other problem area is nearer the wing’s tip, a weaker point, meeting ordinary columns and façade, if the outer wing was even still attached at that point. The wall south of CL 20 shows nary a sign of impact, so apparently building wins there as well, which somehow doesn’t surprise me.

But further in on the wing, which was after all attached to a barreling 90-ton jetliner at about 460 kts, there should have been some instant damage to the frame. Countering this CIT point at the forums, I’ve previously used the following two images of the damaged panel between columns 18 and 19, cropped from Jocelyn Agustino hish-res photos taken – yes, I’m aware - about a week after the event: The missing brick has a linear edge with a certain slope relative to horizontal. The concrete backing damage has its own similar overall slope. The slab and column damage as well exhibit a similar but shallower slope. The damage is manifested at different heights due to the nature of the materials, their order in layering, etc., but all share a moderate right-high slope that is consistent with the alleged wing tilt of the 757 at impact.
Seen from something of a side view, as above, it’s clearly visible that the columns are disjointed, with the upper floor’s lower ends apparently buckled inward, or the lower ones outward, it’s not entirely clear. Referring to this area of damage, the ASCE’s Pentagon Building Performance Report noted:

“Just above the second-floor slab, the exterior columns on column lines 18 and 19 exhibited aligning gashes that seem to indicate impact by the right wing of the aircraft [...] An area of broken limestone of the facade over the exterior column on column line 20 also aligned with these gashes.” [p 27/28 - emph mine]

Referring to these photos presented as evidence, and apparently missing the majority of information in them, Ranke said “the damage does NOT match a "wing". […] A single broken column does not match a "wing" and does not have to have been fabricated on purpose to match a wing.” He decided I was “incorrectly or deceptively trying to attribute damage to the "plane" that did not exist immediately after the violent event,” rather than to the collapse or some other later event. [source]

In fact, noting the lack of all this damage visible before the collapse, I attribute it to a chain of events unlocked by the plane’s impact. Let’s look at a different kind of continuity of wing damage - continuity through time. At impact the initial damage would be done in a tiny fraction of a second. Some of this – the missing and damaged panels - was externally visible. There would also be damage, especially along the stronger frame, that would be internal and less visible.

Considering both obvious and possibly latent damage, let’s look at a sequence of pictures from the morning of 9/11, at different points between 9:38 and 10:15 or so. In Steve Riskus’ photo at left, taken about one minute after impact, CL18 is framed by magenta markers and a line of fire just to its right. This long-shot is too unclear on its own, but compared to the Darryl Donley photo at center and taken at least five minutes after, it shows a flaming seam at its far right that matches, if more dimly. The Ingersoll shot at right was taken several minutes later and after a coating of fire retardant foam. While the facing is broken fairly clean on the column edge, the “no plane” damage area to the left of that remains unchanged; the column and its facing remain - counter-intuitively - intact.

At lower left in the top photo below, note a major crack in the horizontal frame just to the left of column 18. I speculate that at this point, the area there is holding together by weight and habit, but ready to shear, crumble, and scatter along the fault lines introduced by the big thud at 9:38, waiting for a further violent event to trigger the fractures into rifts.
Then the collapse, immediately after which the bottom shot was taken. The facing around the damaged panel has fallen away, but the brick and concrete backing remain about the same. Below that, something has left the whole corner of the frame above and left of column 18 missing, presumably in the pile large of rubble that formed at the foot of the collapsed zone. Perhaps it was some massive pressure that has stripped away the top of that column, exposing re-bar. Although the separation came after the collapse, the point of give is right about there in the red zone of ‘no plane damage.’ And I’m pretty sure column 19 on the right also shows its later damage at this point, and even before collapse, though that’s less clear. Coincidence? If there was no continuity of wing damage, then why is there no continuity of the column here?


Referring to Augustino's post-shoring photos of the alleged wing gash, Ranke told Above Top Secret.com member Dark Blue Sky, in no uncertain terms:

“You can't use a post collapse photo if you are trying to assert it was from the alleged impact. Catherder used the same image for the same reason and it's deceived many 10's of thousands of people. Please don't help. There is nothing possible about the damage to the Pentagon in relation to a 757 impact.” [source]

Referring to a blurrier version of the bottom post-collapse shot above that clearly shows the breach of column 18, Ranke furter explained “it's quite clear that even after the collapse the left column was not completely breeched as it was after supports were added days later.” [source] Wrong. It might have been worse by the time of Augustino's photos, but it could only be less clear here due to being a head-on shot. The top of the column’s casing is gone, the corner of the frame is gone, lengths of rebar are exposed, and column 19 seems to have its damage as well, visible even before the collapse.

In summary then, all things considered, the answer to CIT’s original question is that there is about as much continuity to the right wing damage as there should be, which is little that was plainly visible after impact, but more that revealed itself after the collapse. And again I'm only left wondering if they really misread the evidence this wrong or are just pretending to have done so.