Saturday, June 14, 2008

MORIN: THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM

MORIN: THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 14 2008 3am
edits update 11pm


Pentagon attack witness Terry Morin, September 2001 at the Navy Annex/FoB #2:

“Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual.”
According to this graphic, the larger structure to his right here is the bus stop and the smaller one security (thanks CIT). These sit astride the high-traffic crosswalk to the parking lots across the Pike, including, according to this graphic, lot 3, to which he said he was headed (thanks Bobloblaw).

“I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view.”

Where exactly and how far out? Officially, southwest, about straight ahead if facing the bus stop. The distance is far from clear, but given that it was traveling at near the speed of sound, it couldn't be much behind its noise, perhaps passing the Sheraton hotel. In the below graphic, the “official” flight path is placed approximately based on all available data, and is a general fit for Morin’s description, below:
“The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB).”

The use of ‘essentially’ in conjunction with his otherwise detailed account shows he means it was very nearly over him but not quite. “Parallel” I take as an accurate observation but not necessarily 100% precise. The real path of Flight 77 does in fact run about parallel to the building’s edge, as seen here. Also, parallel is a word describing two different lines. He did not say “along the edge,” so it was probably centered either north or south of that line, and if north, his failing to describe it as over the building is curious.

“I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure.”

Seeing stripes indicates, as he said, that it was not directly over him (unless in a severe sideways bank, which neither he nor anyone mentions). It was either some combination of south and banking left (and he’d see the left/port side), or north and banking right (in which case he’d see the right side). The former seemed to fit his continued line-of-sight, nearly up to impact, and of course also fits with where the plane actually was and where Morin said in 2001 that he was. He describes his continuing view thus:

“Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon.”

His lateral line-of-sight would be set by the edge of the 8th wing’s SE corner. This would completely block his view of anything too far north, and this path does have something of a north trend. His approximate line-of-sight then is represented by the yellow line in my second graphic, above. Note that the last stretch of the path and the impact itself would be invisible from his angle, unless he moved significantly south.

He also specifically mentions a vertical line-of-sight, defined by a row of trees running along the crest of the hill east of the FoB. In the analysis below, descent rate again approximated, the point where he’d lose sight of the plane appears to work out to about the same location – that is, it went too far north to see at about the same time it went too low, all at around the yellow line. I'd venture from these rough renderings that it would disappear below the horizon just before passing behind the building. So in two ways he would absolutely not see the plane all the way to impact. The reason I explain this is to defuse the importance of Rob Balsamo’s neat little video using 3-D graphics to show the same thing I decided with my graphics, so it's a useful visualization (scene below) – it shows the plane shrinking to the corner, disappearing vertically just before it was about to do so laterally.
This revelation fits with the placement above and with Morin's first losing it behind "a row of trees," not the building. It only appears damning and contradictory when contrasted to this line, sometimes misused by ‘de-bunkers’ and here misused by a re-bunker:

“The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon.” [emph. mine]

First, “when” cannot be taken too literally when micro-second time differences are at work. Second, the flash may be a light pole being “planted,” catching a glint of sunlight as it “danced” in the air. It may have been a glint off the plane itself as it banked, depending on the angles, which I haven’t analyzed. But clearly it occurred in his line-of-sight, and southwest of - before - the “subsequent fireball.” His narrative does put enough detailed emphasis on seeing tail, and “believing” to have, that it appears he’s embellishing a bit. Vagueness of language aside, he is clearly supplementing his memory with additional info (time: "call it approximately 9:36 AM"), and it would seem embellishing some gaps - tiny, tiny gaps. Perhaps it seemed to him that the “official facts” lined up with what he saw and heard, and if so such synergizing is only natural.

So this is the conventional wisdom, or rather my understanding (which is just a notch above that), of Terry Morin’s account. It corroborates the "official story"/real flight path so well in fact, that he's been strenuously dismissed by critics like CIT's Ranke, who back in November rattled off a huge list of perceived inconsistencies and stated paradoxically “due to all of these extreme contradictions with the official story and explicit exaggerated details meant to support it [...] it's clear that Morin is either relaying a completely fabricated or else wildly embellished account.”

Well, if Ranke today is to be believed, simple embellishment is out the window at least, and Morin himself proves that Morin was fabricating virtually everything in his account, possibly in cahoots with the planners who knew how it should look. Ranke says Morin affirmed, in a private, off-the-record discussion recently, that he was actually “between” the wings rather than “from between,” (see first graphic). This is just as CIT had always reasoned against all reason, giving him the view of a toaster pastry that completely invalidates everything above and any reason to believe what he says now.

If Ranke today is to be believed… and that’s an if alright… then Morin the proven fabricator who was likely complicit now helps prove the truth seven years later and “most definitely should go on the list of people to subpoena once the hearings begin.” Once again the mighty CIT has shown us how much we all know. I have some things to say about this ridiculous turn, but I’m taking it steady right now, and will report more fully as soon as it seems reasonable.

Thursday, June 12, 2008

REHEAT, REASONING, RADII

REHEAT, REASONING, RADII
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 12 2008
a bit rough


Note: Lest Reheat think I'm being too harsh on purpose, lemme just say, nah! This is important work and he's right in general, I'm sure. I've just spotted a few things, and I'm such a contrarian...
---
JREF member and anonymous retired Air Force pilot “Reheat” has been offering mathematical proof of the impossibility of CIT’s NoC flight path for a while now. His new paper Debunking the North of Citgo Theory, as published at 911myths.com, further develops the theme, and spurs me to finally note his work. This additional nail in the coffin is couched as “an analysis of the aerodynamics required based upon witness testimony,” a novel approach to the north path analysis – check if it’s possible before asserting it happened and proves that other things didn’t. It’s encouraging to me that someone else feels it’s worth the time to engage this silliness earnestly. I often feel hoodwinked for arguing against something so stupid, but I have nothing to blame but my own obsession. And Reheat has taken issue with the same theory and gone and done math about it – imagine how twisted his mind must be!

His assertion, in this paper and previously, that “the calculations are aircraft type independent” has caused some confusion, and the first thing I did was ask him to clarify. To summarize as I understand it, these numbers WILL apply to any fixed-wing aircraft in the presumed turn, but exactly HOW the G-forces apply depends on the craft. F-16 could do better than 757 with the same turn. The details still escape me a bit, and so I’ll just let the paper speak for itself and offer Brainster’s accurate summary that Reheat has “taken the Morin and Paik flight paths, and then shown the turns necessary to be where the Citgo witnesses claim, then done the calculations to show the stress that the planes [sic] would have experienced trying to make those maneuvers, and that they would have stalled out.”

What I can offer now is some focus on the operative concepts and logic behind this effort, where CIT and allies have claimed straw man, faith-based argument, general scumminess, and disinfo. Unless I’m reading wrong, they have some cause to complain. The paper explains the start point, with witnesses “Edward Paik and Terry Morin who place the aircraft flying parallel to Columbia Pike. There is no problem with this portion of the testimony as it was stated, without CIT’s spin.” The problem is that CIT’s spin is part of what they have decided and the reason this proposed flight path exists to debunk in the first place.

Reheat places Morin where he actually describes himself, but has the path going directly over him there, in a straight line directly parallel to the Pike/FoB edge that has no turn at all from Paik’s position (Paik>Morin listed as requiring 0 degrees of turn). This is the red line in graphics below, on a heading of 72 deg, which is close to reality I’m sure, but not fit for this exercise. Paik himself drew several paths crossing the annex at an oblique angle, which must be ignored to use only gestures from an earlier testimony. And according to CIT, Morin was north of the spot Reheat chose, between the wings of the Annex, as they decided with this ridiculous graphic. Marquis: “when he saw the plane for the brief instant it would appeared parallel to the outer edge of the FOB-which, again, is where the flight path was at; the outer edge Also I am sure he meant it figuratively and not literally, since he can't see the entire flight path.” [not their path from this location anyway – source]

In short, the way I see it, if you want to debunk CIT’s flight path, you need to realize it’s a fiction THEY wrote based on certain interpretations and take those into account – like ignoring the low impact aspects of their Noc witnesses. We’re already factoring that out and presuming a flyover and looking here at lateral turns, NEWS. They did not propose a path literally parallel to the FOB, so including one will distort the path. And it puts one in the line of arguably valid straw man accusations.

Next: a bit technical, sort-of. To be sure I understood the concept behind his turn radii, I stripped away the numbers and made it visual, which helps me. I looked first (and only) at the most moderate curve. I connected the Morin point to the NoC 1 pin, then drew in a simu-curve (orange) to average the heading change more realistically.
Next I checked the headings at Morin and att NoC 1 and found app. 72 and 40, for a change of 32°, which is a bit off from the numbers on the chart, but close enough for what I’m doing here. Then I set a circle around the R1 pin and found it traced that same curve. So this is the right center presuming the plane started south of the Annex at Morin’s location. From there we have another center point for the second turn to impact, this time labeled P1. (“The tags P1, P2, and P3 are the center points of the turn radii for the NoC locations to the impact point at the Pentagon.”) Following the same pattern, we get a curve like this: Which gives us a final flight path like this for NoC1: Now I understand maybe that's part of the point here, but CIT never proposed anything like that, and never needed to. As whoever it was stated in response, Reheat “twists it (pun intended) even more with an S-Turn? Now there is no doubt in my mind why he wants to remain anonymous. Too funny. He must really be desperate to put an S-Turn in there.” Indeed, if I’m reading it right, there is a pronounced S-curve to the proposed path while CIT’s proposed NoC path is all one arc (blue above, their most moderate proposal). Yes, this means Morin was really fudging, but who can disprove that? It's not much further from what Paik drew - his exact lines works for neither official nor NoC paths without fudging. Reheat’s initial straight path as far as the FoB has an edge to run along requires a left and then right bank, whereas CIT has argued for a single right bank over the whole span and crossing the building. These are two different flight paths.

And as far as the degree of the second turn, JFK’s criticism – for once anyway - seems valid here. Unless I’m missing something, there’s no reason “the tags P1, P2, and P3” need to be THE “center points of the turn radii for the NoC locations to the impact point at the Pentagon.” It doesn’t need to fly the full arc 180° - it could fly nearly straight after the Citgo starting from a less northerly heading there. Let me help out here with a possibility:
Someone else can crunch the numbers on that.

If nothing else, this episode illustrates the absurdity of trying to concoct a real flight path from witnesses by focusing on discrepancies rather than correlation, and the dangers of selective reading - someone, or some part, always has to get thrown under the bus. And besides, if someone "must really be desperate to put an S-Turn in there,” someone needs to look into the chaps who put out this desperate s-s-s-swerve a while back and started all these tortured calculations.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008

BIG EYEWITNESS NEWS COMING!!!

BIG EYEWITNESS NEWS COMING!!!
June 11 1am


Aldo Marquis CIT has news for us, again! “UPDATE: We've got another corroborating witness to the DC/EOP/Chaconas flight path.” Good, since the Scoggins confirmation didn’t turn out so well. This was the first post in the Chaconas thread since JFK shut it down a month ago to push out PBnJ. And there’s news on other fronts, hints a-dropping at the LCF in the last few days, and I gotta say I’m scared that my whole reality is about to come crashing down! "They have no idea how wrong they are about to be," Marquis told Bitterman. "Paik's position didn't allow him to see what happened at the end of the Annex," he said in another thread. "We do have a better idea now, so just stay tuned."

Most ominously, Marquis announced "We now have an additional 6 NoC witnesses. 2 on audio recording and 4 on location, on camera. One of those was a surprise published account that we did not expect to get." Lemme guess – ANC folks and such who were north of the real path, and describe the plane as over them? Now CIT’s collection has grown to “12 people who saw it on the north side of the Citgo.” How many mention the Citgo? I'll have to wait and see. How many people south of the real path described the plane as 'over' them? But they don’t count as SoC witnesses since they don’t mention the Citgo, right? Now CIT’s collection has grown to “12 people who saw it on the north side of the Citgo," he told critic Boboblaw, "leading us to believe the plane flew over. Leading us to believe in the second plane cover story. Leading us to Roosevelt Roberts who saw the plane flying away and thought it was a second jet in the area at the exact time of the attack."

Regarding that last, I'm still waiting for that full article and complete audio that was promised a couple weeks ago. One thing at a time fellas, lets see if one pans out before we start distracting people with something else that also won't. Not sure what they’re saying at their own forum, but the word bombshell is probably in there somewhere, as they plan another of their regular bomb-dropping followed by another round by the dud truck, teetering and barely able to drive beneath its towering load anymore. Perhaps they will finally break the truck, which seems their only reachable goal.

'Hey, we're not confused about Roberts' account,' CIT will likely say. 'You're the one with the stupid "questions." Why don't YOU go ask him to explain it again?' Funny they should possibly ask that right after I led the post that direction. In other news, I’ve been “unusually investigative” lately in sending out, last Monday, a ‘clarification packet’ to Officer Roberts with all the contact info he could need. In nine pages (with plenty of space, mind you), I asked about all the little details I’ve been wondering about and made it near-impossible, if he answers anything, to continue the vagueness that’s come across so far. I included a zoomed map for locating himself, lane 1, etc. if all south, and a wider view for the flight path he saw. I could have made better ones I suppose, but I felt rushed.


The way I see it there are three possible outcomes:
1) He doesn’t respond, or does so in a curt and dismissive way. This seems most likely, but considering how he talked with CIT, I would find this a bit suspicious. They didn’t just look up his number and call him, not by any means I’ve found, but likely got him to call them after an initial contact. Am I right, guys?
2) He responds in the affirmative of what I suspect – he saw 175 impact on TV and then saw 77 approach. I’ll publish it happily.
3) He clarifies what CIT’s been saying. I won’t believe it, but I’ll acknowledge it and, with his permission, pass it on. That in itself would be very interesting.

So each of these outcomes is educational in its own way, and it will have been worth the time in any case. He should have had the packet for over a week now, just long enough that the suspense is killing me and I’m wondering if he’s planning to blow me off quietly. So now it’s in the open, I can’t be blown off silently. How loud it gets depends on me. In the chance he’s reading this site, again, all I want is the honest and un-muddled truth, even if it’s just that I fail, and we are waiting on a response. And again, Roosevelt, if you're reading this, all of this back-and-forth should not matter a bit for the outcome. Memories are memories, and if CIT can hear them, why not me?

Sincerely, Caustic Logic

Tuesday, June 10, 2008

FOLKLORE/BRENNAN /MISSING TAPES

FOLKLORE/BRENNAN /MISSING TAPES
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 10 2008


Previously on this site I’ve cited “2001 LoC interviews” with Pentagon attack witnesses William Lagasse, Chadwick Brooks, and Roosevelt Roberts, all Defense Protective Service officers. These are part of a larger series of oral interviews gathered by the “American Folklife Center” at the Library of Congress, and more specifically from a sub-set of interviews collected by Utah State University student Jennifer Brennan. A USU website lists the impressive collection of 56 oral interviews recorded on tape and catalogued in their library after a folklore professor there “instigated this documentary project in her fall 2001 semester class(es). Some of her students participated in what was a larger (nation-wide) folklore collecting project," the site explains.

Remember when reading or listening to these accounts, they are not part of a scientific investigation of witnesses; the oral accounts are gathered as folklore, passed-down stories, only based in authentic experience. But around Arlington, they tell their kids that “folklore” consists of “fictional stories of a country or region passed down through generations to help explain natural phenomenon, often using animals and bigger than life characters. Paul Bunyan is an example of folklore.” How’s about the north-of-Citgo flight path, Pentagon flyover and all-faked destruction? A tall tale that will re-surface for generations when the subject of September 11 comes up? “What about those officers and that animation… didn’t some people actually see the plane fly over the Pentagon?” Never mind that it makes no actual sense, aside fro the vigorous lobbying of certain ‘investigators,’ it has a certain mythic resonance with a number of people, and these three accounts - and later accounts by the same men - are among the few real things that give it that.

But as well as embryonic folk legend, the tapes are evidence of some kind, and much of this is good stuff. The freshness of the accounts is core to their value, all recorded within a few months of the events. The register of all USU tapes, compiled in May 2004, lists the collection as including assorted paperwork “contained in the first of four boxes in the collection, each informant having an individual folder within the box. The audio tapes are held in the remaining three boxes.” Regarding the list itself, each informant's name was “followed by the call numbers (for both the interview paperwork and the corresponding audio tape), the date and place each interview occurred, as well as any other pertinent information." [emph. mine]

Including our three DPS officers, Brennan contributed 24 of the total 56 interviews (10 of which were also published at the LoC site - search "Jennifer Brennan" if needed), all conducted in late November/early December 2001. These are listed chronologically, starting with one Donald Brennan (Pentagon employee), whom she refers to as “Dad.” His account was in Box 1, Folder 7, and the audio tape in box 2, No. 4. The interview date is listed as Nov. 18, in Washington D.C. via telephone from Logan, UT. It includes “Tape log; fieldwork data sheets; 2 transcribed oral narratives included; collector release form only.” Himself a DPS officer of unclear rank, Brennan Sr’s account is detailed and coherent (and included in the LoC collection, in 2 parts). He didn’t see the plane but he mentions hearing two transmissions: of a plane approaching and a plane impacting – possible candidates for these calls include officers Brooks, Lagasse, or Roberts, all of which Brennan apparently helped his daughter get ahold of, along with at least some of the others I would guess, giving her by far the biggest take in the USU’s effort and I would hope high marks in the class.

Our eventual CIT witnesses are listed at the USU site thus:

William C. Lagasse (Pentagon employee):
Box 1, Folder 20 [AUDIO TAPE: Box 2, No. 17]
06 Dec. 2001
Fredericksburg, VA (via telephone from Logan, UT)
(Tape log; fieldwork data sheets; Collector release form only.)

Chadwick Brooks (Pentagon employee):
Box 1, Folder 24 [AUDIO TAPE: Box 3, No. 3]
09 Dec. 2001
Stephens City, VA (via telephone from Logan, UT)
(Tape log; fieldwork data sheets; Collector and informant release forms.)

Roosevelt Roberts, Jr. (Pentagon employee ?):
Box 1, Folder 27 [AUDIO TAPE: Box 3, No. 6 - MISSING]
10 April 2002

Waldorf, MD (via telephone from Logan, UT)
(Tape log; fieldwork data sheets; Tape missing; collector and informant release forms.)


So Roberts’ original tape is missing from the USU collection. This could have many different reasons, and is not unique to his interview. Four other tapes are also listed as missing, all from Brennan’s 24, and all listed as (Pentagon employee ?). two of these five, Roberts and Maiorca, were first logged with the LoC and still available, for a net loss of 3 audio accounts from all known circulation (Cooke, Ochoa, Wayman). How this happened and what significance it may have I can’t yet say.

There is also an odd pattern here by which the “date and place each interview occurred” as given on the USU site is generally later than the given dates for the ten featured on the LoC site, though generally within a few days or weeks of each other. Her fathers and Wagstaff’s are the only ones with dates that match, Nov 18 and 29th respectively, listed the same at both sites. Lagasse is listed as recorded on December 4 by LoC, and Dec 6 by USU, Brooks as Nov 25 and Dec 9. Rosati, Gamble, Stout, and Nesbitt follow this pattern. It seems reasonable to guess that one set of dates refer to the actual interview and the other to a later cataloguing or something The USU site’s wording must be wrong, since the LoC couldn’t be cataloguing them before they occurred.

The general proximity of all but two of the USU dates makes sense, but Roberts is listed as recorded Nov 30 by LoC and on April 10 2002 by the USU site, over four months apart. This is not unique, and apparently related to its missing status. The five missing tapes are all given dates of April 10, 11, or 16 2002. This is presumably the date they were found to be gone, the original dates somehow lost as well (written on the tapes?)

Friday, June 6, 2008

RADAR = VISUAL = SOUTHWEST

RADAR = VISUAL = SOUTHWEST
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 6 2008


I could have posted this sooner, but it deserved some careful prep, and I’ve enjoyed CIT’s maneuvers in the interim. Sorry fellas – I did set it like an ambush, but didn’t expect it would actually work so well and so quick.

Recently I was able to contact FAA’s Colin Scoggins about his 9/11 report of a plane seen (I presumed) on radar southeast and/or southwest of the White House just prior to the attack. I was thrown for a loop when Scoggins told me it was a visual sighting from FAA HQ in the Capitol, and it seemed he was saying it was therefore NOT a radar report.

That wasn’t even my original question, but I poo-pooed this notion, given the great distance to see it. I did do up some scale experiments that indicated “they certainly would be able to visually pick it out" - barely, as a speck - "if they were first tipped off by, say, a radar report of a plane five miles southeast, er, southwest. But to notice it with no prompting makes little sense to me.”

In the comments at the above link, Craig Ranke of CIT showed his enthusiasm for this revelation and his own idea for the prompting in question:

“So Scoggins is 99% sure it was a visual from FAA HQ in downtown DC! Wow. Great work! Clearly that destroys the NTSB and supports EoP.
[…]
It wouldn't take a "hawkeye" on the DC flight path if they saw it pass their building over DC and kept following it and this does not make any sense AT ALL with the NTSB or alleged radar data!
[…]
>>>>You'd guess they were prompted by the over DC path to keep following it then?
If there is any truth at all to the this visual reference then it is the only explanation. Naturally any plane at all in P56 airspace would alert attention.”

[how about the outbound C-130 over the mall’s south edge? Any witnesses outside the plane?]

Ranke even started a thread at their forum, the last before the valuable threads posted later on “Tramsoccalpra” and “Hydrociault” that were REMOVED! (Censor Nazis ;))
DC flight path - East of Potomac evidence, further confirmed by ATC Colin Scoggins
, about how “CIT obsessed Adam Larson did a little investigating of his own and ended up CONFIRMING our claims!” He presented a fuller argument that does make sense given the state of the evidence yesterday, used my graphics, and even linked to the original as a valuable piece of research, if riddled with obfuscation and whatnot. Amazing. Cue the sparkly CIT lyte trip-hop music, this goes in the revised how they forgot to scratch Lloyd's hood and other addenda video...

As far as Ranke’s interpretation that a visual encounter supports the DC flight path, this does make some sense, depending on how much evidence there really is for it being over DC before this (hint – it’s a CIT claim). For CIT it’s a no-brainer since they already believe it was over DC and THIS is what prompted them to follow or project it south, southwest, and so on. But here’s a different, more informed insight, from another Scoggins e-mail just as Craig started posting stuff:

"This [is] taken from the USA Article I mentioned. This is the TELCON I beleive I was on. I am 99% sure. The call came from FAA HQ, and they were on the West side of the FAA HQ building, and Dave Canoles must have been on the North side, so Dave's office was a corner office or it was real close to the corner. "

Cue the record-scratch sound. Indeed. I had heard this article mentioned but hadn't read it, and apparently neither had Ranke. The whole article, from just after 9/11, is still available here. These are the relevant excerpts:

At FAA headquarters, less than a half-mile from the White House and Capitol, Dave Canoles paces before a speakerphone. The head of air traffic investigations, Canoles has set up phone connections with air traffic facilities. […] Now, about 9:35 a.m., he and others on the conference call listen as an official watching a radarscope tracks the progress of the jet heading for Washington

So my either-or impression was a false one based in my ignorance of this piece. Canoles is probably the muted voice we can hear behind Scoggins in the NORAD tapes, and he was first tipped off by another person elsewhere watching the radar track. This makes perfect sense, and then the visual part comes in, prompted by radar. Is there a clue in this to what the returns said?

“Canoles sends an investigator who works for him to an adjoining office with a view to the west. "See if you can spot it," he tells him.
"Six miles from the White House," a voice on the phone says.”
Canoles glances outside, through a window facing north. He wonders if he and his co-workers are in danger. At 500 mph, the jet is traveling a mile every seven seconds.
"Five miles from the White House."
No way the FAA is a target, Canoles thinks. It can't be.
"Four miles from the White House."
They'd never choose to hit us. No way.
"The aircraft is circling. It's turning away from the White House."
Where? Where's it going?
Then: "It's gone."
In the adjoining office, the investigator spots smoke to the west of the city. The jet has hit the Pentagon. The time: 9:38 a.m.”


Scoggins feels this account “flat out tells me that it is visual,” but I don’t really see it. There is talk of windows and attempts to see, which is a hint it might have gone there, but the only thing that’s clearly mentioned actually being seen is the smoke afterwards. Now since the investigator is in an adjoining room a phone bridge seems unnecessary, but it is possible he’s the one on the phone giving the updates based on what he’s seeing out the window. And it’s at least as possible, not knowing more, that these are from the same radar operator that got them started.

It’s not clear from this alone if there was ever a visual sighting of the plane, but Scoggins also heard what Canoles actually said, in the telcon we only hear murmurs of, and he is left 99% certain there was such a contact. I’m inclined at the moment to believe him. So treating this as an eyewitness case, let’s first note that the USA Today piece mentions a view to the north, meaning Canoles’ office was on the building’s north side – he had an investigator go into an adjoining, but different office, with a view to the west – a corner office.
It’s not clear if any sighting would be before the plane turned fully southward from its original path or after the loop and up to the final approach. The witness would not be able to see the farthest reaches of the loop (darker green, below) between these points at all without binoculars. He may well have had binoculars though, come to think of it. He could then have seen perhaps the entire loop, or any portion of it, all from that office with a view to the west.
Now, how can this visual sighting “further validate the east side evidence” if it’s taking place from a west-facing office, prompted by a radar report of a plane in that direction? Originally I offered the quite reasonable and well-supported guess that the southeast report was simple error in reporting a radar track. Then it seemed there was a visual contact instead of radar, which complicated things. Then I learned that this observance was spurred by radar and confirmed southwest, and while we still aren’t sure where the momentary inversion of east and west came in, it is looking pretty much out the window as evidence.

Thursday, June 5, 2008

CHACONAS: AN INTOLERABLE INTERPRETATION

CHACONAS: AN INTOLERABLE INTERPRETATION
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 4 2008
update 6/9 12pm


At the Loose Change Forum recently CIT witness Steve Chaconas, as presented in The Pentagon Flyover, came up again. [interview runs 17:34-35:00 in the video] Chaconas was a charter boat captain out fishing with others on 9/11, near a sewage treatment plant on the Potomac a few miles south of the capitol. CIT feel “Steve’s account alone is enough to prove a military deception” by having a plane fly across the river east-to-west, bank right and apparently fly into the Pentagon off in the distance. Critical forum member Bret08 pointed out that “Chiconas [sic] is a human being giving his judgement and perceptions. He is not infallible,” and asked his fellow members “Are we even sure that the plane he saw was AA77/decoy?” He’s exactly right to wonder about this, if not terribly articulate about it. He was of course hit with slings and arrows for his criticism. CIT ally Bitterman snapped back:

“Hey Bret! WTF! What is wrong with you? Wait, wait......don't tell me.....I already know what you do. It pisses me off. […] in APRIL, you asked this SAME QUESTION. Remember when we trounced you because you still didn't get it, and we informed you that Steve CAN tell the difference between a turbo prop and a jet airliner?!?!?!

4 engine turbo prop vs. a 2 engine jet. AGAIN, DO NOT ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN. Your motives are obvious to me, but I have to play by the rules. So, for the last time....here is the answer to your STUPID question. [provides the quote I’ll post below] So? WTF man. WHY are you here? Who are you? Why are you important? How old are you? You're credible how? […] If this is ALL you bring to the table, then STFU.”


At this point the moderators stepped in. “JFK” is no Jack Kennedy – he’s also a moderator at plane-pod-promoting letsrollforum and seems to think he can make any tripe look noble with his pensive presidential avatar and management of ideological differences in the name of "9/11 Truth." In response to Bitterman’s barely-provoked tirade, JFK said “Brett is tolerated here simply in case if we overlook something.... Other than that I ignore him for the most part.” Further denunciations came unmoderated from Avenger not Aldo, and Domenick DiMaggio not CIT.

I’d guess that Brett08 is tolerated there because he is timid and not studied on the details, and because they need some on-site opposition. I know I wouldn’t be tolerated for a minute in the current climate (I’m “Deleted User” there, voluntarily, but it’s devolved since then). I know to point out that all we have for proof of the decoy white airliner thing crossing the river is this ONE witness who saw the final bank and dive preceded by a crossing of the river by what he feels is one and the same plane.

The pivotal part is where he saw it crossing close to him, considering the C-130 flown by Lt Col Steve O’Brien that followed after 77 to investigate the crash site crossed the river roughly when and exactly where Chaconas’ plane crossed. It has been reasonably proposed by Brett and myself and others that he actually saw the C-130 and just thought it was an airliner.

I’m not bothering now with a full deconstruction, but my opinion on Chaconas is that he’s neither correct nor 100% honest in his account, and neither is he outright lying, and almost certainly not any kind of “disinfo agent.” Consider this graphic: A perfectly honest and unbiased observer might connect these two maneuvers with a deduced bank, considering the proximity of the two path in time and space. Add in his apparent desire to boost the mystery and ‘unanswered questions’ surrounding 9/11 [27:00 in the video], a sentiment similar to that of Bob Pugh [video here, 30:30 on] and such deduction seems entirely too likely to be ignored.

Consider also his curious vagueness on characteristics of ‘the plane’ as it passed nearest to him:
Ranke: “Can you describe the jet for us? Did you notice how many engines it had?”
Chaconas: "I don’t recall anything specific about the airplane, and again, it was far enough away to where we, you know to me, it looked like a commercial airliner…”
Ranke: “How about the color though?”
Chaconas: “Nothing specific about it at all.” [25:05]

This raises a question for CIT. Guys, of all the witnesses you’ve interviewed, how many have flat refused to specify the color when asked? And why is it this one?

In closing, I’ll remind the reader that no other witnesses in the area have yet been found to corroborate this ONE apparent river-crossing by the decoy. And this pivotal and lonely account is based on a few words, like the hard point Bitterman slapped Bret08 with to certify it was one plane, and that an airliner. Carefully re-read this important passage: “and again, it was far enough away to where we, you know to me, it looked like a commercial airliner…” That’s a lot of qualifiers. It was far enough away that to me it LOOKED LIKE an airliner. So it was an airliner! The logical extension of this is that if it were closer, it might look to him or to anyone less like one and, perhaps, more like a C-130. The qualifiers indicate that somewhere in that brain Chaconas knows this.

ETA: And the fact that CIT passed up the chance to show him their ever-present E4B and C130 photos [nowhere in the video] for comparison indicates that they knew it too.

ETA: There will be no Chaconas update posts, and after this ETA no more additions to the post body, since Ranke said "that's it?" in the comments. I don't want to change the context on him. I will include additional marks against their literal interpretation in the growing comments section below.

Wednesday, June 4, 2008

A VISUAL ENCOUNTER?

A VISUAL ENCOUNTER?
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
June 4 2008 2am


Colin Scoggins was the manager of FAA’s Boston Center as the attacks of 9/11 unfolded around him nearly seven years ago. He played an unexpectedly crucial role relaying information between the FAA, NEADS and others, as one can hear listening to the NORAD tapes released in 2004. Perhaps most famously he was the one who passed on the much-speculated on and unfortunate report at 9:21 am that Flight 11 was still airborne. I’ve been sent a copy of an off-line, detailed account Scoggins wrote, and was even able to make e-mail contact recently with Scoggins himself.

While I’m still trying to get his take on my own Flight 11 theory, he’s given me a puzzling insight into a lesser erred report he had to relay, which I had already covered in six miles southeast, as it related to CIT’s East-of-the-Potomac case. The call Scoggins made, at 9:35:41 am, was essentially this: “Latest report, aircraft [inaudible] six miles southeast of the White House,’ a report soon changed to “six southwest, six southwest of the White House and deviating away.” It was clear that he was passing on information from someone else, but how those people had become aware was not totally clear. I had presumed he was passing on a seen radar track, and that the change from SE to SW was a correction, providing a "brilliant indication" that the path released by the NTSB was “the one seen by radar controllers on 9/11” - a plane deviating away six miles southwest of the White House. When I asked Mr. Scoggins about it, however, it turned out more complex than I thought it would.

I asked, again presuming a radar track, “was the plane your people were watching ever on the east side of the Potomac? Was SE->SW an error->correction or correct placement->update situation?” He wasn’t sure at all on the reason for the change, which stands to reason given the general overload of the morning:

“I immediately called NEADS, and was advising them what I was hearing. They changed the direction so I repeated what I heard. […] So the real question is did AAL77 cross the Potomac, I don't know. I'm 99.9% it did slam into the pentagon, on what route of flight I have no idea, other than what has been published.”

He told me off the bat that “I never saw the plane, our radar doesn't go down that far,” meaning south, as he later clarified “our radar only goes down part way through New Jersey.” The information was being handed to him on a Telcon, a telephone (?) conference, with others at FAA, and passing it on to NEADS, where it linked to military response/lack thereof. He’s not certain who he was talking to or where they were calling from, but seems pretty sure who and where through some personal research (though he isn’t telling me yet). On Scoggins’ advice, as he said in an interview with JREF member Ref, NEADS made a call to Washington Center, where he thought there’d be better intelligence.

“NEADS did turn around and immediately called Washington Center, and advised them that “Boston Center reported and aircraft six miles from the White House”, the response from the Washington Center person who received this call was unbelievable, “How would Boston Center know if an aircraft is six miles from the White House” “CLICK” they hung up.”

I was under the impression Washington center was tracking, or aware of Reagan National's tracking of 77 at this time (about two minutes before impact, near the end of the loop), and would have been the source of this intel. But apparently they rejected it when it was handed to them from the outside. Perhaps they were just too busy tracking the plane to take accurate but minutes-old hearsay about it? But it’s a good question, and the one I was asking; “How would Boston Center know if an aircraft is six miles from the White House?” Scoggins told me:

“I was on aTELCON and there were people who were actually looking at their window and saw the plane, they were speaking it verbatim on the phone to the TELCON. So it was a visual encounter, I assume they were in FAA HQ on Independence AVE. I know one persons name who was there and according to a USA article on around 9/20/01 I have an idea who said it on the phone, and he is the same person that I received the Phantom 11 call on.”

Was he just confusing a human voice saying it for a human eye having seen it? I asked for clarification “are you pretty sure it was not radar that was giving this info?” I would guess FAA headquarters had a link to radar controllers, if not their own screens. He clarified “when they say six miles they probably would have meant statue miles, not nautical,” which would equal a slightly lesser distance. He also pointed out that “they were estimating on a visual of an aircraft moving pretty quick,” and that

“I don't know what office window they were looking from, I've always felt it was FAA HQ […] I am 99 % sure that the statement was made by visual, the same person who stated that this aircraft was 6 NM southwest, is the same person who told me that AAL11 was still in the air.”

I still have to doubt that this is so, Colin being 99% sure or not, because when you turn this into an eyewitness account it falls apart. The main reason is distance: I took a crop of the picture CIT took from witness Timmerman’s apartment, which shows the Pentagon in the mid-distance and the Washington monument clearly visible across the river at 2.4 miles. But its height of 555 feet is 400 feet greater than the length of a Boeing 757. Here is how Flight 77 would have looked if it were flying near the monument, nearly 2 1/2 miles distant:
And here is an experiment in reverse, a view west from atop the Monument. The location the other photo was taken from is marked with a red eye on this 400-foot-wide building. Again, a 757 is slapped in to scale just above the building, 2.4 miles away.

Now here’s the building Scoggins thinks the call came in from – FAA Headquarters on Independence Avenue in DC. At about a mile south of the White Hose and fairly near the Washington monument, they were calling in a report of a plane about five miles away from their ten-story building. Considering the experiments above, what would a witness at FAA HQ see five miles distant? Enough to report as a plane doing this and that? It's as likely to be reported as a gnat on the window, IF the witness was staring an inch from the pane. they certainly would be able to visually pick it out if they were first tipped off by, say, a radar report of a plane five miles southeast, er, southwest. But to notice it with no prompting makes little sense to me.

So I guess it doesn't really matter, but Scoggins could just have a false impression or imprecise memory, and then again he could be right. It is possible that some hawkeye saw it happening not terribly far away. It's possible but unlikely, and radar still seems right for this accurate but briefly inverted report of Flight 77's location.

Monday, June 2, 2008

WHOT DE 'ELL? SERVERS NOT FOUND?

June 2 2008 1am

I hate to have to keep reporting weird things but this can’t go un-noted. Since last night this has been the status of JREF's forum: The Forum is closed for maintenance. For about the same time, this is what the Loose Change Forum gives me: Safari can’t open the page “http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/index/” because it can’t find the server “s1.zetaboards.com”. This simultaneous cessation of two discussion forums (one VERY active) presumably will be short-lived and explained soon enough. But it is very mysterious and leaves me repeating, as an old co-worker had a way of pronouncing it, “Whot de ‘ell?”

The bickering, sniping, and so on between the two forums had been getting about insane - personal info revealed, sock puppets, IPs tracked, old gripes, accusations, veiled threats, screen caps, it was all hard to keep up with. Did something in there snap something, like, legally? Much of this drama was centered in the areas I'm watching - Conspiracy Theories at JREF and The Pentagon at LCF – and the bogus theories of Citizen Investigation Team (sorry, the bogus theories of the Citgo witnesses, the people of Arlington, etc.). The friction was between the team itself and increasingly its supporters and detractors inside and outside ‘the Movement.’ Was it from this flamethrower battle that a simultaneous cessation of both forums came?

It didn’t seem so, since CIT’s own discussion board was still up last night and earlier today. Then I went to check again and got this: Safari can’t open the page “http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT” because it can’t find the server “z3.invisionfree.com”. Whole servers are down at Zetaboards and Invisionfree? Or is it all on my end? And whatever’s going on at JREF? I do not know my computer stuff – is this a virus or something? Is it subject-matter oriented, or legal? There were no announcements or warnings sent to members, that I saw. it just happened.

For those desaparately adrift due to all this, I’m still afloat, it seems. Climb on board here, and help me sort it out. Comments moderation off for now given the catastrophe. :)
---
Update: As I should have suspected, no multi-forum catastrophe - see comments below - LCF is working for others, so app. I've been banned from reading it, It's more invisible that the Pilots for Truth forum now. JREF has a genuine problem and the page says they'll be up again soon. CIT is back to normal as well. And normal is... well, you should all know by now. Serious seekers and exposers of the "Truth" ban posting for members who disagree too well (CIT), ban reading of subjects for those who don't register for future banning (PFTF), and it seems ban their site from appearing to certain not-even-members anymore (LCF, hijacked by CIT/PFT). Also I found I'm not able to comment anonymously even at ATS, like a normal person who hasn't pissed them off once can do. So with two of these four forums unreadable and the other two unanswerable, I have JREF and 911Bolgger in my communications repetiore at the moment. So... I won't be following the latest lies, distortions, and idiocy as close anymore, which will be good for me and I guess for them.
---
update: Tuesday afternoon - LCF opens for me now. Whot de 'ell? Well now I don't really care but I have something to do for the next ten minutes. Oh, I guess it'll only take two minutes to catch up on the news.

Sunday, June 1, 2008

THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE {masterlist}

THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE {masterlist}
The Frustrating Fraud
Last updated January 2 2008


This post is to organize the sub-posts dealing with the analysis of the physical evidence at the Pentagon attack scene. I am not a structural engineer, forensic scientist, or airplane mechanic. I'm a janitor, but have enough common sense, basic scientific knowledge, and ability to visualize spatial dynamics and physical processes to give my analysis some worth. Some of this is just conjecture, some backed by some research. And most importantly, I’m driven by a desire to actually figure out what makes the most sense, and not be ruled by mystery and speculation. Initially my research was to decide how far off-track Pentagon Strike and 911 In Plane Site really was, but since then I have put together a plausible explanation for what physically happened there that morning centered around the impact of a plane rougly the size and shape of a Boeing 757 and seemingly painted with the American Airlines standards. It's not the only possibility, but as I'll demonstrate it's probable, likely, or at at least as plausible as any other theory, putting the lie to the myriad claims it could not be so.

Just as I was posting this starting late in 2006, the new paradigm of no-757 hoaxing was emerging – Citizen Investigative Team and the witnesses whose geometry logically rules out an impact by a missile, drone, 757, anything, with all the points of evidence addressed below fabricated independently, some in real-time, to indicate a plane strike on the official path. To demonstrate how remarkably convoluted that would be all I need do is keep plugging away at the details like I have been and take as leads the points they think they can twist into making their silly case seem to make sense. To address the witness verification, logic, geometry, and honesty aspects of CIT, I’ve gone out on several limbs listed in a separate masterlist.

In piecing this together I’ve drawn on official and governmental sources, FOIA released documents shared by others, published personal accounts, and mostly on many hundreds of photographs and the published opinions of various theorists. I'm indebted in tiny part to 911 IPS/Loose Change/Hufschmid et al for getting me started and wondering, but indebted massively to the groundbreaking works of John Judge, Mark Robinowitz, Jim Hoffman, Russell Pickering, Joel van der Reijden, Scott Bingham, and various others for showing and addressing in a sane manner ALL the evidence available and thus allowing me closer to the reality of the situation. So in drawing on the works of others, there are only so many new ideas here. What I do is try to understand a point at the basic level, verify it by what I know or can learn, and then simplify and convey the core ideas in my own way. There are no math or science prerequisites for understanding the evidence of this crime scene as I've boiled it down.

In fact, as some have pointed out, the Pentagon may have become such a focus of flawed theories because of the simplicity of the crime scene. The WTC was almost volcanically destroyed and buried, but the Pentagon was basically a five-story office building left almost totally intact. The impacted section was primarily on a single floor of the building and of course inside the plane. Identification of plane parts and bodies would be easier by orders of magnitude than the New York crime scene. And if no such evidence existed, many reasoned, this would become the “weakest link” in the official story. The scant evidence available does not bear them out – this is someone’s weakest link, but not the government’s.

> ATTACK PATH DAMAGE AND QUESTIONS
- Precision Low-Rider: The remarkably anomolous final attack altitude - admittedly quite a feat for a hulking 757. And yet...
- The widely-cited unmarked lawn: A plane so low and yet not quite THAT low. Again suspicious but ultimately a red herring IMO. It seems that however unlikely, it flew that razor's edge of altitude, pushing the envelope to the maximum.
- From the Blind Spot to the Empty Side: The lack of radar coverage over the attack route and the stroke of "luck" that had the plane hit the just-renovated and partly empty side of the building.
- The "undamaged" light poles: Testifying the 'official' flight path and altitude, were these clipped by the plane, popped with FX, or planted in advance?
- Analysis: Poles 1 and 2 proportions, shear height, clues to final plane bank, just a hint of getting into the Lloyd issue...
- Map of the crime Scene and the "obstacle Dodge." The heliport, attack path, generator, etc. mapped out and explained. Excellent resource to be updated soon to reflect the below.
- Vent Structure Damage: If the plane could be said to have hit the ground before impact, this is where it did so.
- Twisted Orange Trailers: Analysis of scrap metal at the scene with some angles and stuff. Pretty cool.
- Cookie Identification Team: The damage points that line up so well they're called 'cookie-cutter,' or too perfect, by critics. Generator trailer, fencem vent retaining wall, tree damage, general impact hole.
- Like Two Bulldozers: A new view highlights the consistency of the damage path with a 757 strike or some damn good fakery.

> IMPACT DAMAGE

- The Entry Wounds: Analyzing the tiny "16-foot hole" so many insist could not have allowed a 757. It's actually 90 feet wide.
- The "16-foot hole challenge." coming soon.
- The outer wall: how many inches of what?: External Wall construction notes - 18" of steel-reinforced concrete? 13" of brick reinforced limestone? Or what?
- Support columns Masterlist: The "intact support columns" thought to preclude a 757 - anlysis with thee linked sub-posts demonstrating incorrect official reports, questioning the status of columns 15-17aa, and the PentaCon guys' analysis of "intact" column 14aa on the second floor.
- Pentagon Foundation Damage?
- Right Wing Damage Continuity

> DEPTH OF PENETRATION
- Early revisionist accounts decided only one ring was damaged. I run rings around their deeply flawed analyses (from 2001 and 2002) for no big plane at the Pentagon. They should have learned by now, but it doesn't seem they have.
- Nine feet of Steel Reinforced Idiocy: Plane penetrates 300 feet, fraud logic penetrates nothing.
- Punch-Out Page - intro on the punch-out hole at the end of the plane's alleged penetration, masterlist of more posts on the hole.

> FIRE:
- No fires? "A Stool Sample of IPS Evidence."
- Impact fireball: Fireball Fakery: Challenge to CIT

> THE PLANE PARTS:

- Part I: The Engines: Parts that could be from almost any engine - including a 757's.
- Part II: Landing Gear: a wheel and a landing gear that look like those from a 757.
- Part III: the Scrap Over the Scraps: Fuselage segments from an American Airlines jet.
- The Flight Data Recorder {masterlist}: Found intact, with altitude, speed, etc details programmed in, and coming out weird. A lot to cover... especially the animation.

>THE BODIES:
-
Faces of Death, the Moussaoui Edition: The government's release of new evidence in mid-2006 as the Moussaoui case closes - are we seeing the Flight 77 victims here?
- also covered at the end of the
nine feet of idiocy piece.

THE FLIGHT DATA RECORDER {masterlist}

A BLACK BOX SURROUNDED BY A MOAT OF MYSTERY
Adam Larson
Caustic Logic / The Frustrating Fraud
last update 8/24/07
Last updated 3/4/08


Much Ado About... Nothing?

Much has been made recently of the reconstruction of data from Flight 77’s Flight Data Recorder, the so-called black box found at the crash scene inside the Pentagon. The "9/11 Truth" analysis of the data is largely based on the fragmentation of the supposedly coherent data in the flight data recorder (FDR) of the attack plane – different versions have appeared, between which different parameters are found to be "altered," leaving each piece neither totally false and dismissable nor totally true and acceptable. Thus they hover in a middle space to be analyzed by experts – primarily Pilots for 9/11 Truth and their expert allies. Predictably, the data as read and shared offers different answers to different questions at different times, depending it seems on the circumstance. The answers consistently challenge the official account, but fail to prvide a rational alternative, and often conflict with each other…

Various aspects of the NTSB animation based partly on the FDR are covered in my three-part video series "That Darn NTSB cartoon," compiled with notes here.

--- About the Sources ---
- The Evidence Trail - NTSB, FBI, 9/11 Commission, and the National Security Archive keeping the data under wraps, and its final revalation to the public in mid-2006.

- The FDR Specialist's Study: A closer look at the verifiably NTSB-provided FDR data.

- The CSV file

- "Three CD's: Where's Snowygrouch's DVD?" The Pilots' Transatlantic animation connection examined. Snowygrouch and the animation's first appearance. NTSB status at the time: unclear IMO, and yet...

--- Analysis ---
- Pilot X and the 440-foot gap: Altitude Questions raised by the NTSB animation

- Created in Translation: the altitude re-set NOT in the animation - where is it then? at FL018... forthcoming

- A somewhat dated but interesting analysis thread by myself and others @ Above Top Secret: Great insights, explanations, obfuscation, and fumbling with appearances by John Lear, John Doe X, and others.

- Ten Degrees From true: THE "NTSB Animation" is Flat Wrong Demonstrating that the north of the Citgo flight path shown is in fact at least 20 degrees off from the Black Box data it's supposed to be based on.

- Final Altitude: Eight Readings: At least four altitudes attributed the the FDR, compared to flyover "witnesses," and the "official story." I did forget radar accounts which place altitude by accounts of it dropping beneath their coverage just before impact. This is said to confirm the official story and probably does.

- 20 Minutes and 20 Miles from True: CSV longitudinal offset

- NTSB animation internal geography {masterlist} My most tedious chapter yet - five posts with one or two more to come.
- A Turn For The Worse: The culmination of the animation studies above: visual proof that the animation's final overlay map is rotated to about the same tune the plane appears north-of-the-Citgo.

- Csv/animation altitude discrepancy. Kind of a mess, mostly intended as a self-correction.

- CSV final plots: Using timeline seconds to determine geographic seconds.

- Missing Seconds: My Last FDR post

- Bank Notes: Draws on FDR bank/roll readings as part of a larger argument

--- My own NTSB FOIA Search ---
- News Coming A half-ass rundown of why I was finally contacting the NTSB.

- NTSB FOIA Response recieved - no discs enclosed

- NTSB's "Goebbels" and Me When I talked to the director - not important but a tad interesting

- Video: That Darn NTSB cartoon part 2 - the Authenticity Sidetrack Snowygrouch et al. and my discless response explained by me in a video.

CIT/PENTACON {Masterlist}

CIT/PENTACON {Masterlist}
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
The Frustrating Fraud
Last Updated 3/4/08


Released: late Feb 2007 by Citizen Invetigation Team (CIT)
Aldo Marquis: Researcher/co-prod/co-writer/co-Dir/narrator
Craig Ranke: Co-dir/co-writer/on-site interviews
Jeremy Harris: Editor
One hour, 20 minutes
View The PentaCon, Smoking Gun version here:

Google Video page
The PentaCon.com - their site

Update: 7/6/07 In an attempt to help Ranke (Jack Tripper) calm down and deal with the issues, I'm removing my full review from circulation. He feels it is deceptive. I never felt it was written or approached quite right, but left it as-is to preserve what had become a large piece of my little history here. So of course I kept a copy myself.
I will also direct readers to Arabesque's far-superior critical review:
http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/05/critical-review-of-pentacon-smoking-gun.html
Update 12/6: I just re-posted my original review here with comments and updates. I will add points to this from time to time and treat it as a running critique.
Update 3/4/08: Since this is where I linked to mt PentaCon review, I'll also link to may partial review of their second feature-lentgh mockumentary The Pentagon Flyover: How They Pulled It Off. Not surprisingly, it doesn't explain shit about the optical illusion they pulled off to make a flyover appear to so many as a low-level impact, but rather use misread adjectives to establish the flight path further back from the flyover point.

Note the lively comments section below, and with each post. Very little censorship occurs here.

For the intrepid investigators / ruthless researchers of Citizen's Investigation-ish Thing, aka Comedy Improv Team, aka CIT, I have a growing body of works, most of them fairly recent, leading to allegations of hyper-stimulated obsession. I giuess that's about right, which is a problem - for CIT, anyway. Here are the self-hosted FF posts that deal directly with them and their 'evidence.' They're entitled to their own opinions regarding the North-of-Citgo (NoC) flightpath, but not their own facts. Therefore...

post rating for hardness of the hit against CIT's arguments:
* = marginally related or little direct effect
** = moderately strong refutation(s) of CIT assertions included
*** = damn that's gotta hurt, few reasonable people could walk away from this believing them at all

Rebuttals of their physical evidence claims:
** - Column 14AA: The Smoking Gun that Fell Away
** - Foundation Damage
*** - Fireball Fakery: Challenge to CIT
** - Right Wing Damage Continuity
*** - Cookie Identification Team: So CIT says much of the damage doesn't line up right with a 757 impact, but what about the spots where it does match? Eh, it lines up too well.
*** - Those are points in response to specific CIT claims. See also my physical evidence masterlist for more of the mutually-corroborating evidence of a full-on 757 impact.

Eyewitnesses:
** - CIT Eyewitness Verification Part 1: The Previously Suspicious Father McGraw
*** - CIT Eyewitness Verification Part II: The Ladies of 13th and Poe
- “Convoluted manipulative disinfo” version
- “despicable scumbag” summary version
** - Chad Brooks, 2001: Left Behind? [Don't take the title literally - IMO he first saw it left and ahead]
*** - Sgt. Brooks Draws a Line
* - William Lagasse, 2001 [No apparent conflict but little support for NoC path]
* - Lagasse And Eastman Part 1: Eastman and the Decoy Theory
** - Lagasse And Eastman Part 2: The Fortuitous Debunker
*** - Lagasse And Eastman Part 3: Another Lagasse/the Second Generation
** - On the Account of Steve O'Brien: CIT's C-130 Findings re: Flight 77
* - A Fork in the Road
*** - The Trouble With Turcios
* - 18th st. witness location
** - Roughshod over the suspicious ones - the witnesses CIT does not trust. One of them is...
*** - Joel Sucherman, NoC witness?
* - Query to CIT: Timmerman view, left side?
** - Chaconas: An Intolerable Interpretation
*** - Clout Flyover Witness: Roosevelt Roberts series - several posts compiled here - understanding CIT's first publicized "flyover witness."
*** - Morin: The Conventional Wisdom
"It's a perspective issue": On Bobloblaw's score - CIT poor research/dishonesty (your pick) + beligerence and eventual surrender = great entertainment. Re: witness Sucherman and sad attempts to alter his view.
** - Flyover Link Doesn't Link
The South Path Impact, Documented: Thirteen NoC witnesses and zero for the south path? Then why did I have to stop at 13 just to conserve time?
- See also PentaCon review

Other:
** - Open Letter from the "Light Side": Craig offers truce/partnership. Ain't happening.
*** - How the Citgo Video Contradicts the North-Side Claim: An Analysis of... Flight 77's Shadow? Some excellent clues say yes, and it's south of the station.
* - CIT-CL Phone Discussions: Embedded audio/video of CIT's postings with some notes. (two discussions, about an hour each).
** - Arabesque on the Absurdity of CIT Antics
* - The SantaCon/2007 Adios
*** - Bank Notes: CIT has found exactly ONE direct clue to support all the turns and tilts required for their flight path, ignores clues from their own witnesses and others that contradict their theory, confuse the issue with improper terminology and vagueness, and all to propose a flight path that appears next to impossible.
* - ...ahem.And then the Jreffers prove the path impossible and so on...
* - Obstacle? Impossible. CIT's stint at providing the 'government story' graphics doesn't help PFT overcome their math deficiencies.
*** - Proof that CIT was manipulated?: The Citgo manager, Robert, and the proven manipulated video.
* - Bobby Balsamo Caption Contest: CIT "op-research" on me.
*** - Six Miles Southeast: Did Scoggins MEAN southeast, and was this from radar?
* - A Visual Encounter?Scoggins doesn't know if it wa east or west but it was by eye, not radar. That doesn't sound right. CIT loves it.
*** - Radar = Visual = Southwest: Oops for CIT - it's both visual and radar and both say southwest.
** - Reheat, Reasoning, Radii: Regarding Reheat's Debunking the NoC paper. I toss CIT a bone? Sorta...
** - A Mirage of Plausibility Ally Mirage of deceit was trying to help here, but helped illustrate again what Reheat was trying to show. oops.
* - Filet of Flounder
* - Walter, Pickering, Lagasse on CIT

Most of my anti-CIT activities have been in chat forums, where I've taken an activist stance in the past. These are some of the relevant threads at Above Top Secret.com, Loose Change Forum, and elsewhere where others and I have intensely clashed with Craig and to a lesser extent Aldo, and their supporters. Just a partial list - I've stopped keeping track.
Review of Caustic Logic's Review of the PentaCon
">Challenge to Caustic Logic (eyewitnesses)
The PentaCon a hoax? Erred assumption but good debate
Retraction: PentacCon is NOT a hoax
Lack of Foundation Damage puts an end to 757 debate (hardly)
- First Things First: What hit the light poles?
- Open Letter to Adam Larson
- Are the Citgo witnesses government plants?: Craig responds to my wacky conspiracy theory
- LCF thread I hijacked to explain the south of Citgo shadow
- ATS thread I started about the south of Citgo shadow
- Craig's thread about our phone chat.
- Fireball fakery: My thread at LCF
- ATS thread Craig started in response to my fireball fakery piece
- Raven's LCF thread "Flyover Theory RIP"
- TerrorCell's LCF thread "2 More North Side of Citgo Witnesses"
- Interesting thread about CIT, SantaCon, trolls, sock puppets...
- Actual C-130 Interaction With The Decoy Jet; & the ACTUAL flight path of "Flight 77" Page 8 is where I get banned and thereafter quit the new LCF
- ATS thread on Sucherman's 2:00 north-path placement - here's where I quit ATS as well.

- Having lost his Conspiracy Master, forum-weilding status at Above Top Secret.com, Craig started his own dedicated invisionfree discussion forum for CIT. I'll include a link here in case any discussion happens there.
CIT Forum debate call to me
I feed my addiction (rebuttal - please see Sucherman piece).